Gudabursi...

[burdi]

Thank you burdi, I have added the information.

The 17th Ugaas, Jaamac Muxumad, do you know what his abtiris was?

you are welcome

about ugaas Muxumed i'm not sure about his abtirsi but i'll search it.

one thing else GADABUURSI or MADALUUG in general are not part of MAHE DIRR, they are descent from DIRR directly some poeple says it is MADALUUG DIRR (MADALUUG is son of DIRR) while other says no it is MADALUUG AHMED DIRR (MADALUUG is grandson of DIRR) only ALLAH knows. so please correct your data..

MAHE DIRR is SURRE, GAADSAN, MIYOMAAL, and ISAAQ

[James Dahl]

My dear burdi,

The biggest issue for me is that the abtiris for Gadabursi seems too short if Madaluug is a son of Dir. Sheikh Samaroon is alive when the Ethiopian Army invaded Ifat in 1415, and Dir is a contemporary of Darood who, judging from the length of the Abtirsi amongst Darood, lived around the year 1000.

The Sons of Dir, for instance, are given as Madahweyne, Madaluug, Madoobe and Mahe. If the abtirsi of Sheikh Samaroon traces Maxamuud Saciid Daa'uud Xassan Cumar Cali Madaluug Dir, then that means the 400 years seperating Dir from Sheikh Samaroon would be 50 years per generation! This is not possible. Perhaps for one generation or two it would be 50 years, but that would be averaged out by the very short generations of 20 years and the average ones of 30 years to end up at about 32 years per generation, which is the average period between generations.

However, there is a tradition that exists that Madaluug is not a SON of Dir, but rather a great-grandson, via Maahe. This tradition states that Madaluug traces his abtirsi thusly: Madaluug Maxamed Xanaftire Maahe Dir.

If we run with this alternate tradition, Sheikh Samaroon traces Maxamuud Saciid Daa'uud Xassan Cumar Cali Madaluug Maxamed Xanaftire Maahe Dir, which is 11 generations. This results in 36 years per generation, which are long generations but much more plausible than the 50 years per generation.

It is for this reason that I have chosen to place Madaluug as a son of Maxamed Xanaftire Maahe Dir rather than Dir himself, as if not for this alternate tradition of descent, I would be looking for 3-6 missing generations in the Samaroon family tree.

However Xanaftire's two sons, Axmed and Maxamed, are terribly confused with one another in many traditions, some going so far as to say Axmed is another name for Maxamed, probably because Maxamed Xanaftire also had a son named Axmed. Perhaps the tradition that it is Madaluug Axmed Dir is a clue? I do not know. The Dir abtirsi is the most difficult for me to trace.

I hope I have explained my reasoning and why I have placed Madaluug as a son of Maxamed (possibly Axmed?) Xanaftire, it will no doubt prove to be a controversial decision and one I am not against being proven wrong on.

- James Dahl

[burdi]

Dear James,

you are absolutely right about the abtirsi of Gadabuursi people being short compared to Hawiye abtirsi or even most of Darod clans abtirsi, but if you compared with northern people like Isaaq, Isse or Akishe there is no big differences. and what northern clans made their abtirsi very short compared to southern people are northern people married or used to marry older than southern people still in our days you can see 18 old boy having children in south in east or central regions people also marry at young ages but not lie south.
in west where i came from before 1940's men used to marry at very old ages between 40-50.

for example Akishe and Isse are older than Gadabuursi and they count same or less to Dirr same goes to Isaaq.
most Samaroon people counts between 18 to 22 to Samaroon. for me i count 19 to Samaroon (excluding myself) and if i add to myself it is 20 and if i calculate it 2010-1400 = is around 600 years if we divided to 22(max) is around 28 years and if divided to 16(min) we get 38 years.

sheikh Samaroon is alive when the Ethiopian Army invaded Ifat in 1415, and Dir is a contemporary of Darood who, judging from the length of the Abtirsi amongst Darood, lived around the year 1000.

yes, it is true that Samaroon live at that time according to somali history my great grandfather sh. NUUR YOONIS lived the same time Ahmed Gurey lived. and it is not true that Darod lived the year 1000 i mean it is not possible how on earth some people count less than 30 generations (which most of Darod people do) to some guy who lived 1000+ years i think dirr, darod and hawiye lived either the same time or within a century.

one thing else northern people used to say Samaroon is Madaluug Dirr, Isse is Madoobe Dirr and Isaaq is Mohamed Dirr that doesn't necessary mean Madaluug, Madoobe, and Mohamed are the sons of Dirr nor it means Samaroon is the son of Madaluug.

[burdi]

D/P

[James Dahl]

My dear burdi,

You are right that Isaaq count roughly the same number of generations to Sheikh Isaaq as Samaroon count to Sheikh Samaroon, which is roughly 20 generations or a few less.

There is another chronological issue as well though with placing Madaluug as a son of Dir (3 generations back) rather than Maxamed Xanaftire that I forgot to mention previously. The mother of Habar Garxajis branch of Isaaq, Garxajis Madaluug, would be far too old to marry Sheikh Isaaq's son Ismaciil Isaaq, though perhaps I am missing a few generations there?

For instance your abtirsi, your abtirsi to Sheikh Samaroon averages 30 years (600/20), precisely the average for an abtirsi, so with the men marrying at the age of 50 there must also be several of your ancestors who married at the age of 20 and everything in between, your abtirsi says that northern abtirsi should be just as long as southern ones, with their 30 year average generations.

So then we are left with an open question, why are Dir abtirsi shorter than other Irir, or Darood, who are their contemporaries? This is a difficult question to answer. There are between 5-10 generations that are "missing". There are a few possibilities:

One possibility is that Dir's sons are not exactly his sons but descendants of his, but the generations between Dir and the next important branching of the Dir family tree are less important and thus skipped over. This happens with the Hiraab Hawiye, who often skip straght from Hiraab to Daame Gorgaate Hawiye, even though there are actually 5 generations in between Hiraab and Daame, and also with Dulbahante where they skip over a whole 9 generations between Saciid (Dulbahante) and the first branching of their family tree, which is why the Dulbahante abtirsi is famously short. If we say that there are 5 "lost" generations between Dir and Maahe for instance and we also assume that Madaluug is a son of Maxamed Xanaftire then we have found our 8 missing generations. Or, if like the Dulbahante, Madaluug is a son of Dir but there are a whole 8 missing generations between Madaluug and the first branching the Madaluug family tree.

Or of course there is the inevitable cynic's argument that Dir could be a different tribe from Hawiye entirely, and Irir is a confederation. This particular possibility could be tested with DNA genealogical testing. If true, this simply creates more questions than answers really, but the truth is often more complicated than people think.

- James Dahl