James

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James

Postby mahamed » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:06 pm

Hey, I want to tell you that, Saciid, Libangashe, Geesi-gule, Kaski-qabe.. sons of Harti Mother name is Fadumo (Ceebla) Arap Isaaq. se is also the mother of the Absames (Ogaden, Jidwaaq,Aweyteen, Abuskul).


And our Abtiris that we all agree on after Habarwa is Habarwa, Abdale Muuse Saciid!
Mahamed of the Shirshore Dynasty of the Great Dhulbahante Nation, Khaatumite Prince.
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Re: James

Postby James Dahl » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:43 pm

Interesting, I have added this detail, thank you!

http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=6816

One question though, you said she is also the mother of the Absame clans, did she remarry? Do you know the details?

Also it looks like my program doesn't support this situation, I will have to modify my code :D
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Re: James

Postby mahamed » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:04 pm

She was first Married to Harti's Second Cousin, Absame, when Absame died Harti was available to take a second wife, and he married Faduma.

And our Abtiris after Harti is like this, Harti, Kombe, Kablalax, Darood. with no other addition. only the Majerteen family add the additions u made. maybe to make their linneage longer?

And also add the Dhulbahante Garadate Dynasty.

Garad Jama 2nd 2006-present (College Graduate, Bringinger of Stabilty, Peace, Unity, Justice & Progress to his Subjects & the Somali Nation, served as the Head Elder of the Elders who approved the new Somali gov't & constitution, Power behind Khaatumo & Head of the Khaatumo Supreme Council)

Garad AbdiQani (Garad Jama's uncle) 1985-2006 ( College graduate from London , Worked at the Somali Central bank, and Comissioner of Erigavo And Berbera, he was named as a Foriegn Minister by the Arte Gov't after Siyad Bare, he served a peace maker during the Civil war)

Garad Ali 5th 1966-1985 (College Graduate from London, Head of USP, Signed Somali Independence in London, Served as an MP in the Somali Parliament and as the Minister of Education)

Garad Jama 1st 1923-1966 (was Garaad during the era of European rule in his Lands & saw the end of it and Somali independence in 1960)

Garad Aar Dheel 1st 1921-1923 (Garad Aar Dheel was closest relative to the Garad Family so he took the garadship since no garad family was present in nogal valley)

Garad Mohamed 4th 1901-1918 (Refused European Colonialism, Died during the Dervish wars)
Garad Ali 4th 1863-1899 (Refused European Colonialism, Died during the Dervish wars)
Garad Mohamud 4th 1850?-1863(koore-baas) warrior Garaad

Garad Ali 3rd 18--? 1850? (Garaad Of the Dhulbahante during Richard Burtons & John speke's Exploration of Norhtern Somalia)

Garad Mohamed 3rd
Garad Mohamud 3rd
Garad Ali 2nd
Garad Mohamed 2nd
Garad Mohamud 2nd
Garad Ali 1st
Garad Mohamud (Jabane) 1st
Garad Mohamed 1st
Garad Yasin
Garad Cabdalla
Garad Farah
Garad Shirshoore

Family Cheifs, Heads or Rulers before the Dynasty.

Habarwaa
Yahye
Cabdale
Musse
Hayag
Saciid


One more thing, Gerad Shirshore is not the Father of Ali Gerad, but Gerad Abdullah son of Gerad Farah is his father. I will give you corrections as nedeed.
Mahamed of the Shirshore Dynasty of the Great Dhulbahante Nation, Khaatumite Prince.
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Re: James

Postby James Dahl » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:18 am

It appears I am missing some garaads and I don't know where they fit in.

Also the 9th, 10th and 11th garaad on your list goes Mahamud then Mahamed then Ali then Mahamud, but my abtirsi for this part goes Mahamud then Mahamed then Mahamud then Ali. Is there something I'm missing? Perhaps abtirsi and the garaad title do not exactly correspond here.

I do not have an abtirsi for Garaad Aar Dheel, do you know it? Also the Garaad immediately preceding him, Garaad Mohamed, what was his relationship to Garaad Ali (1863-1899)?

http://www.abtirsi.com/dynasty.php?dynasty=22
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Re: James

Postby mahamed » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:54 pm

Garaad Aar Dheel was a regent Garaad he was the closest Member of all the Dhulbahante to the Royal Family after the Invasion when they left the North for the deep Dhulbahante Hawd.

The Garaad before him is Garaad Mahamud (1899-1918) son of Garaad Ali 1863-1899 and brother of Garaad Jamaac (1923-1966) son of Garaad Ali.

This the Abtirsi between, Garaad Mahamud Jabane and Garaad Mahamud Koore-bas 1850-1863 father of Garaad ali (1863-1899)

GARAAD MAXAMUD JABANE GARAAD MAXAMED
GARAAD CALI GARAAD MAXAMUD
GARAAD MAXAMUD GARAAD CALI
GARAAD MAXAMED GARAAD MAXAMUD
GARAAD MAXAMUUD GARAAD MAXAMED
GARAAD CALI GARAAD MAXAMUD
GARAAD MAXAMED GARAAD CALI
GARAAD CALI GARAAD MAXAMED -1850
GARAAD MAXAMUD KOORE-BAS GARAAD CALI 1850-1863

I doubled checked it and you are right.

by this Abtiris I think we can estimate how old our clans are.

We are 5 generations after Garaad Ali 1850.

5 generations before him was Garaad Mahmud Jabane he must have lived around the early 1700s,

5 Generations before him is Garaad Shirshore, the Mid 1500s, we know the Hartis fought as one clan in the War against Abbsyinnia and Portugal, that means we broke away as a clan in the mid 1500s and no Longer did anyone say am the Harti clan but Dhulbahante, Warsangeli etc.

5 Generastions preceeding that if we start from Shirshore is the Era of Saciid Harti, early 1400s. The 5 Generations preceeding that is of Harti kombe kablalax Darood Ismail Jaberti, Ismail or Jaberti around the mid 1250s must have fled the Mongol invasion of The abbasid empire and found their through son and grandson Abdul rahman to the Horn for a new settlement, for safety, refuge, economic reasons and to spread the religion. this was a time when arab were settling and started towns on the East African Coast.
Mahamed of the Shirshore Dynasty of the Great Dhulbahante Nation, Khaatumite Prince.
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Re: James

Postby mahamed » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:06 pm

You can all so add the Bartire Jidwaaq Royal Family of House Absame. Dhulbahante and Absame lineage is Identical we count about the same to Darood and we never add any other names to our abtiris.

Garaad Maxamuud
Garaad Dool
Garaad Xirsi
Garaad Cumar
Garaad Xirsi-WiilWaal
Garaad Faarax
Garaad Xirsi
Garaad Aw-Madar
Garaad Caafi
Garaad Faarax-Illeey
Garaad Dhaaweed
Garaad Nuur
Garaad Dhaaweed
Garaad Cismaan
Garaad Axmed
Garaad Yuusuf
Garaad Muuse
Garaad Yoonis
Garaad Laag
Garaad Wadi
Garaad Yacquub
Quwaaxde
Barre(Bartire)
Jidwaaq
Absame
Kuumade
Kablalax
Daarood
Mahamed of the Shirshore Dynasty of the Great Dhulbahante Nation, Khaatumite Prince.
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Re: James

Postby mahamed » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:41 pm

Another point, The 1st Garaad of the Dhulbahante Kingdom was also the decendant of a line of Dhulbahante chiefs. He must have led the Dhulbahante, Harti and Somalis in war and was awarded the title of Garaad by Ahmed gran or his succesor since the title was in use by that kingdom during that era.

Secondly our Abtiris is matched by our absame brothers and is confirmed by our mothers lineage who lived in the 14th century with our ancestor. Our abtiris is accurate and has no additions. Clans with longer lines had offsprings at a younger age or simply added names added names or they myst be a confederacy of oromo, galas other somalis etc..who put names together to fit in to the clans..
Mahamed of the Shirshore Dynasty of the Great Dhulbahante Nation, Khaatumite Prince.
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Re: James

Postby James Dahl » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:19 am

Dear mahamed,
I'm not certain of the cause of the discrepancy though I don't like to jump to conclusions, it's possible some names have been lost, I mean we're talking about people who lived more than a thousand years ago in some cases. Generally speaking, abtirsi up to the clan founder is very reliable, as it is a living tool, but beyond this, deep into history, things become less certain, not in ultimate ancestry but rather names get skipped and forgotten because they are not where clans branch.

Let's say something terrible happens one day, and the Khalid Habarwa go extinct. For a time people would continue to count Habarwa, but maybe Dhulbahante splits into clans, like what happened to Harti, and Dhulbahante is no longer what people count to, perhaps they stop at Garaad Shirshore after this time. Eventually only old men would remember Habarwa, then noone would. Abtirsi would become Shirshore Dhulbahante Harti, as the names in between had fallen into disuse.

This has happened hundreds of times, entire clans have gone extinct and have been forgotten, and we don't remember their names or how they are related. I would actually bet that Darod lived even more than 40 generations ago.
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Re: James

Postby mahamed » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:55 am

I think u believe that, but our clans lineage is recorded.

I corrected the garaads names for you can update that.
Mahamed of the Shirshore Dynasty of the Great Dhulbahante Nation, Khaatumite Prince.
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Re: James

Postby James Dahl » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:39 am

It's no problem, like I said it's not good to speculate without evidence.

I only have two Garaads who I don't know their abtirsi now:
http://www.abtirsi.com/dynasty.php?dynasty=22

#16 Garaad Maxamed
#17 Garaad Aar Dheel

Do you know their fathers?

Also if you know what order the Bartire Garaads go in I can add their dynasty page too :)
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